Cross-Industry Leadership: Insights from Herve Mazenod on Adaptability, Innovation, and the Power of Diverse Experience

In this installment of The Leadership Insider, Margaret Jaouadi welcomes Herve Mazenod to learn about his career, how it has shaped his thoughts on leadership, and why exposure to multiple sectors in the current economy is essential for leaders. Herve runs a new consulting firm called Chapter 3 Transformation with a former colleague Russ Dickinson. Together, they help clients in the service sector accelerate the transformation and optimise their operations. He has spent nearly 30 years working for the public sector, pharma, food manufacturing, FMCG, high-tech, outsourcing, and financial services organisations.

His experience across different industries has allowed him to understand the importance of cross-industry and capability-first hiring.

Herve explained why leadership skills—such as strategic thinking, involving others, clear messaging, and role modelling are far more important than deep single-sector expertise. He encourages organisations to embrace diverse backgrounds when hiring for senior roles and advises candidates to consider moving to a new sector to bring a fresh perspective and innovation to a new employer, highlighting their ability to adapt and thrive.

Special thanks go to David Howells, Group Chief Executive Officer and Group Managing Director at Pacific International Executive Search, for introducing Herve Mazenod to Margaret Jaouadi.

Margaret Jaouadi
Can you describe your career to date?

Herve Mazenod
I started my career in the public sector in France. Then I transitioned into the corporate world, initially in food manufacturing. After that, I moved into FMCG working at Reckitt Benckiser.

After those early years, I switched to management consulting joining an engineering consulting firm, focused on the high-tech sector. During that time, I worked across two industrial sectors: semiconductors and pharmaceuticals. In 2004, I moved to OEE Consulting (now Concentrix Catalyst), where I worked for 20 years, and concentrated on Banks, Insurance, and Broking. I led the financial services sector at OEE and, more recently, led the whole UK & ROI business.

Two months ago, I set up C3T (Chapter 3 Transformation) with a former colleague, Russ Dickinson, to help clients in the service sector accelerate the transformation and optimise their operations.

Margaret Jaouadi
Can you give me some examples of how your previous experiences helped you in your senior roles at OEE?

Herve Mazenod
Technically, I have learned a great deal from each industry I’ve worked in and I thought it might be helpful to share two key lessons from different sectors and how they can be applied elsewhere:
– First; the importance of diligent planning and forecasting; and
– Second; the need for precise measurement of productivity, quality & lead time

Chilled foods, like fresh products with a short shelf life, operate on very thin margins, so efficiency is critical. One of the most important things I learned was planning—scheduling, forecasting, and capacity management were vital. The level of discipline in these areas is incredible.

The team would constantly monitor the news, the weather, sporting events, government /policy announcements, and other factors that could influence consumer behaviour. If the forecast showed a sudden drop in temperature on a Friday for the coming Sunday, the types of products people would buy would change, and we’d have to adjust our production and whole supply chain within minutes. It was incredible to see how every variable was taken into account. From this, I learned that in 90% of environments, it is possible to create a relatively accurate forecast, challenging many organisations’ beliefs.

I’ve applied this lesson in other industries – I once worked on forecasting customer queries for a large bank. Initially, the team wasn’t sure that we would get to a good level of accuracy but by involving people in the process, we ended up building a much more robust forecast in a matter of weeks.

Another significant lesson came from my time in the high-tech sector, from working with fast-moving consumer goods (FMCG). I used to manage the engineering side of an aerosol factory. The factory was fully automated; from lorries unloading materials on conveyors to products being built, packed, wrapped, and loaded for distribution across the retail network. On paper, there was very little manual intervention, but in practice, it took a while for automation to provide the promised benefits. Productivity started to improve when engineers, technicians, and production operators worked together to solve problems.

In the semiconductor industry, I learned a lot about managing complexity. Many devices we use in everyday life (computers phones, TVs, etc.) contain integrated circuits/chips that are manufactured in ‘fabs’. Before being fitted to a device, a chip goes through a long and relatively complex production process, made of 100s of steps (forming what is called a wafer). What’s remarkable in this industry is how they manage lead time—the time from the start of customer demand to the provision of that demand.

At the time, a key measurement was called the ‘X factor’. It was a measurement of the actual lead time against the theoretical lead time (the time it would take if everything worked perfectly and there were no delays). For instance, if the X Factor was 10, that would mean that the lead time was 10 times slower than it could be in an ideal scenario (what they would have called the cycle time). A target X Factor of three or four was considered industry-leading. This concept of lead time was crucial because it took into account everything: quality, speed, effectiveness, and the entire supply chain. A relentless focus on lead time means that organisations improve their service, productivity, and overall profitability.

Comparing performance against an ‘ideal state’ means that many companies think they’re around 70-80% productive, but in reality, they’re often closer to 10-20%. They’re missing out on significant opportunities for improvement. This is another critical lesson I learned from the semiconductor industry that I’ve applied in other sectors.

Margaret Jaouadi
What challenges did you face during these transitions and how did you overcome them?

Herve Mazenod
I think the biggest transition for me was moving from manufacturing environments into the service industry, particularly banking and insurance. Coming from environments where everything was meticulously measured and data-driven—where margins were so tight that operational efficiency was paramount—was quite a shift. In manufacturing, gaining just 1% or 2% in productivity was a big deal. It was an environment where efficiency was key. I also learnt that there was an inherent variability in service that did not exist in manufacturing.

Adapting to these new environments was challenging. I had to manage my expectations, realising that the systems and processes I took for granted in manufacturing didn’t necessarily exist in service but also that the service environment was significantly different so not everything applied from previous industries. I had to recalibrate my approach.

While some found this transition difficult, I didn’t struggle as much. I think the biggest challenge for many moving from manufacturing into banking or insurance is the instinct to standardise everything. In manufacturing, most processes are highly standardised, but in a service environment, that approach doesn’t always work. For example, you can’t fully standardise a call centre. You can have decision trees and some guidelines, but you can’t script every word because it comes across as robotic to customers. It’s like when you call a helpdesk, say, about a laptop issue, and they ask if you’ve restarted it—right after you’ve just told them you already did. It’s a lesson that not everything can be carried over from a highly operationally mature environment to a service one.

What drew me to this new industry was the sheer unknown. I didn’t know much about banking beyond what I saw as a customer—a branch where you made payments or withdrew cash. I assumed everything was automated by computers. It was a revelation to discover how many people were involved behind the scenes, in what are essentially large-scale service centres. It was like discovering a whole new world, and my curiosity drew me in.

Margaret Jaouadi
What skills and attributes are most critical and transferable across industries for senior roles?

Herve Mazenod
People skills and leadership abilities are, in my view, universally relevant across industries. Strong leaders—those with excellent listening skills, a clear vision, and the ability to work with data, inspire teams, and define what success looks like—are valuable in any context. Whether it’s in the armed forces or a corporate environment, the core aspects of leadership remain the same, even if the approach might differ slightly.

To elaborate, I believe leadership is at the heart of everything. Many people emphasise the unique aspects of their industry, suggesting that skills aren’t transferable because the sector is different. However, the fundamentals of running an operation or a business are the same. It’s about leading people, understanding clients and customers, and knowing how to measure and achieve success.

Of course, there are certain roles where direct experience in a particular industry is crucial. For example, transitioning from manufacturing car exhaust systems to handling customer service calls in a fast-food chain involves different tasks and challenges. However, the leadership skills that underpin those roles—whether motivating a team or setting a strategic direction—are the key elements that truly transfer across any industry.

Margaret Jaouadi
How can cross-industry experience make you a better leader?

Herve Mazenod
Open-mindedness is key for me. Having worked across various industries, I’ve gained a wealth of knowledge and realised that there’s always a better way to do something. Seeing different approaches in other sectors has made me a more effective leader because I’m genuinely open to new ideas, innovation, and fresh perspectives.

This mindset fosters a different way of thinking—one that embraces the idea that everything can be improved or approached differently. I don’t believe in sticking with the “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it” mentality. Just because something works doesn’t mean it can’t be better. For me, it’s crucial to always seek out ways to achieve even better outcomes.

Margaret Jaouadi
How important is it to increase diversity and representation in senior roles, especially in male-dominated industries, and what steps can encourage that?

Herve Mazenod
It’s incredibly important. And why is that? Because diversity brings new ideas, fresh thinking, and different perspectives. There’s plenty of evidence showing the benefits of diversity—it’s not just a buzzword. It creates a more dynamic workforce, fosters new connections, and sparks innovative ideas. That’s the why. I urge people to read Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed.

But someone needs to lead the charge. It has to come from leadership. There are practical steps to take, like rethinking how and crucially where we recruit, promote, and develop people, and where we find them. It’s about being open to change and not getting stuck in the old ways of doing things.

One approach could be bringing in an outsider to offer a fresh perspective, to train and explain why this is important, and to show where we’re falling short. Another could be engaging employees directly, asking for their input and participation. And maybe, it’s about highlighting the pockets of diversity that already exist within the organization and demonstrating the positive impact they have.

To your original question, open-minded leadership is key. If leadership isn’t open to change, diversity won’t happen. In that case, it might be worth reconsidering whether that organisation is the right place for you.

So, it starts with open-minded leadership. Then, it’s about raising awareness through training and education, with support from the top. And, as I mentioned earlier, showcasing proof points—finding and celebrating the areas where diversity is already making a difference.

When it comes to recruitment, I’ve moved away from focusing solely on specific experiences. It’s not so much about whether someone has been doing the same job for decades. What matters more is experience with people—their attitude, energy, and curiosity. If someone has years of experience but also shows a real interest in learning, asks great questions, and brings energy to the table, that’s far more valuable than someone who might have the technical experience but lacks those qualities.

The willingness to learn is critical.

Margaret Jaouadi
What recommendations do you have for hiring leaders to consider cross-industry candidates?

Herve Mazenod
I’d emphasize two key points. First, meet people from other industries. As a recruiter or hiring manager, you can learn a lot from them. While you can’t force someone to be open-minded, it’s essential to approach the process with that mindset. Just give them a chance. Wild cards—those who don’t fit the traditional mould—often bring more value than you’d expect.

When hiring, start by identifying the gap you’re trying to fill in your company. It’s not just about filling a role; it’s about addressing a specific need, whether that’s better regulatory oversight, more robust operations, or something else. Once you’ve pinpointed that need, look at industries that excel in that area. For instance, if you’re focusing on regulatory compliance, consider candidates from banking, insurance, healthcare, or pharmaceutical—industries that are strong in that area. On the other hand, if you’re looking to improve your data capabilities, someone from a high-tech industry might bring fresh perspectives that you wouldn’t get from someone within your sector.

Sometimes, it might make sense to bring in two different types of expertise—perhaps one person with deep industry knowledge and another who brings a new approach from outside. You might even consider hiring one as a subject matter expert on a contract basis instead of a full-time recruit. This flexibility allows you to tailor your team’s skills to meet your company’s needs more effectively.

Margaret Jaouadi
What about advice for candidates to consider cross-industry or changing industry and think about their skills as transferable skills, not just look to follow the same path?

Herve Mazenod
There are two key points I’d emphasise. First, for candidates, assess whether your leadership skills are transferable—because they should be. Whether you’re strong at envisioning a future, projecting yourself, presenting ideas, communicating effectively, or coaching others, these are valuable in any organization. So, be confident that strong leadership abilities can apply across different industries.

Secondly, be proactive in learning about other industries. Be curious and take the time to understand how your skills could be of benefit. Don’t just walk into an interview thinking, “I’ve done operations before, and you need operations, so it’s a match.” Instead, approach it as if the organisation were your client. Learn about their specific needs and challenges, and focus on how you can contribute to their success. This approach not only demonstrates your interest but also positions you as someone who’s genuinely invested in helping them achieve their goals.

Margaret Jaouadi
Excellent insights, Herve, thank you for adding your voice to this important topic.

For a confidential chat about how Pacific International can assist you with your Talent Acquisitions and Diversity challenges, please contact David Howells or one of our Executive Search Consultants specialising in your sector.